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Simlogicizing Third-Party Objects

 
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Bedawyn
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Simlogicizing Third-Party Objects Reply with quote

Okay, I'm finally going to break down and ask for explicit instructions instead of trying to figure things out on my own. That hasn't been very successful with the Sims. *wry smile*

What's the best way to merge the plain but functional Simlogical objects with the lovely but Maxis-stupid objects by others?   I'm always surprised that everyone didn't immediately go out and start using the Simlogical bases for everything they made. Right now I'm looking at a bunch of third-party sinks that I want to add the no-dishwashing and leave-room-after tweaks to, and then there are a bunch of toilets and toyboxes I want to make shareable. (For some reason, Jackson always wants to use Cassandra's toybox, ignoring his own, while Cassandra usually prefers his!) 

I know how to clone the Simlogical objects and swap the graphics with iffSnooper, but that seems rather creepy. I tweak other people's objects all the time, but then I'm always working directly in their object. I'll add a line to the catalog desc explaining the tweak for my own future reference, but it's still their filename, their GUID, and no question who should get the credit for the object. Just slapping their graphics on someone else's object, even if it is only for my own use, makes me twitch, especially since many object makers don't properly credit themselves in the CTSS, so I won't be able to trace the graphics if I separate them from their original file.

What I'd prefer to do is, well, ideal would be to just read the Simlogical code so I could learn from it and edit the parts I wanted into the prettier objects. But failing that, I'd prefer to copy the Simlogical resources into the prettier objects. But I can't figure out which resources I do and don't need. I assume I need the TTAB and BHAV resources, but is that all?

(I know there's the tutorial for apartment-hacked objects, but I prefer the sharables since I can set permissions for each object individually.)

Suggestions, pretty please?
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KarinL
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really do want to go this road, I strongly suggest you change the GUID and the filename to reflect the fact that the object is no longer the creator's own version, but that you've been messing around with it.

And actually, I really don't see the difference between taking person A's graphics and putting them on another base for your own use, or taking person B's coding and putting it into a prettier object.

No matter which part of an object you swap into which other part, you are STILL using the work of two creators and combining it to make something new.
Copying the Simlogical coding is about the same as copying homework. You may learn something in the process, but you're not the one who invented it.

I have much more admiration for coding than graphics personally, but I guess that's different for everyone.

I do suggest starting with the tutorial for apartment hacks, though, because even though the actual coding is different, the principle is the same.

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Bedawyn
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>If you really do want to go this road

Well, no, what I really want is for everyone to Simlogicize their own objects, but I don't think that's gonna happen. :-) I've kinda been waiting for it for years and the frustration of having to choose between decorating properly or having my Sims behave properly has finally gotten to me.

>I really don't see the difference between taking person A's
>graphics and putting them on another base for your own use,
>or taking person B's coding and putting it into a prettier object.

I know logically there's not much difference, but the first feels much more transgressive to me. With coding, I know that, given sufficient time and tools, I could do anything I wanted, or at least anything Maxisly possibly. I still need to learn the skills, but I have the internal components and just need the external ones to arrange themselves compatibly. (Right now, for instance, I have the time to put in, but very limited Internet access, so I can't spend the time on tutorials I'd like to.) Graphics, well, you could give me the best graphics program in the world and pay me to sit at it 60 hours a week, and a decade later I still wouldn't be able to do more than recolors. I have neither the natural talent nor the drive to learn the skills. So I admire good coding, but I'm in awe of good graphics.

Plus I assume that, unless stated otherwise, artists are all "copyright copyright copyright!" and I do understand that attitude. Whereas, unless stated otherwise, I assume coders are all "copyleft copyleft copyleft!" and I grok that in a much deeper fashion. If I ever get any of my original projects finished enough to share, I can't imagine wanting to restrict how people use it; isn't the whole point to expand the possibilities? So copying the graphics feels wrong, while copying the resources -- of something that was intended to be reused in multiple objects -- doesn't.

>you are STILL using the work of two creators and combining it <snip>
>you're not the one who invented it

Which is exactly why I don't clone the items I tweak and don't like the idea of just cloning the Simlogical objects and swapping the graphics. Cloning requires the new filename and cookie, and those imply that I've done more than a few menu commands and mouse clicks. I'm pretty consistent about commenting in the description so I don't forget that I've changed a checkbox here or a number there. But anything on my hard drive that's got my cookie in it is something I've done actual work on, not just a few clicks, and I dislike the idea of claiming a file as mine when it is just rearranging others' resources.

I will take a look at the apt tutorial; I'd assumed it was very different since that system is very different.
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KarinL
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A cookie isn't a 'claim'. It's an identifier. It will distinguish your object from the original.

Regardless of how easy the change was, is now a DIFFERENT object than what it was. With a new name and a new GUID you can always tell which is the original creators' object and which is the one you hacked. There may be a time when that comes in handy. :)

A new cookie doesn't imply 'you did more than a few menu commands and mouse clicks'. A new cookie implies that you did something to the original. You gutted it and stuffed your own coding into it. Even if it was just a few mouse clicks, that object is no longer the original.

And just in case the original is FSF, and just in case you maybe at some point share it, it needs to be identifiable as being 'something different than the original object by the original creator'.

I don't put my magic cookie into my objects because I'm so proud of my graphics swap, coding change or other three mouse clicks. I put it in there to acknowledge the fact that I made an alteration to somebody else's file and that this alteration is my responsibility - for good or for bad.

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Thalia
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's nothing wrong with changing something just a little; the point of putting your own cookie in it is so if someone else uses it it doesn't cause a conflict in their game. It's not really about whether it now belongs to you or not. It's simply that it's now different, even if by only a little bit.
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KarinL
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thalia wrote:
There's nothing wrong with changing something just a little; the point of putting your own cookie in it is so if someone else uses it it doesn't cause a conflict in their game. It's not really about whether it now belongs to you or not. It's simply that it's now different, even if by only a little bit.

Exactly. And even if it doesn't cause a conflict in somebody's game because you're not sharing it, it will still be useful telling the original from the altered version.

I have in the past shared stuff that I made long before without intention of sharing at the time...

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