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Missing Objects: For Real!
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Yersinia
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Missing Objects: For Real! Reply with quote

Hiya Simmers,

Just when I think I've been through it all and got it all down (almost), I have another mystery malfunction on my hands.

Several months ago I was told here (by Mars or TheIms3, can't recall exactly) that if you recat objects, you'll get the Missing Objects prompt, and it's nothing to worry about. I had recatted some objects back then, got the Missing Objects prompt, but nothing was ever missing from the houses or lots.

Since my last Big Reinstall and Rebuild My Whole Game From Scratch episode (January through March), I decided not to recat objects anymore (maybe the prompt wasn't anything to worry about, but I decided I liked it better not having it). If I can't find something in Buy Mode, it's enough for me to look at it in IFF Snooper, find out where it is, and that makes me able to find it, usually. I did have a problem with a set of blacksmith shop objects I couldn't find in Buy Mode back in March, but mysteriously, they turned up somehow after about a week!

And now...

For the past several days, despite my not having recatted any objects, I've been getting the Missing Objects prompt -- but this time, objects are actually missing from some of my houses. On, I suspect, a related note, there are items which have also disappeared from my Buy Mode catalog, which (a) I knew were there because I'd seen them there before, I just hadn't bought them for sims yet, and (b) I know all of these objects are in the game because I see them in the Downloads folder.

While to the best of my knowledge, I didn't have any object ID conflicts (no, my game hasn't been crashing, but I thought of this anyway because I thought I'd read somewhere that object ID conflicts can cause other kinds of weirdness as well as crashing), so somehow I thought, well, I didn't then, but maybe I do now. So last night I shut down and ran GUID checker. Yes, it detected a few doublons, but I fixed them. All of them -- the last run was clean. However: none of my "disappeared objects" were the ones with duplicate ID numbers I had to fix.

My missing list:

1. From both houses and Buy Mode:

Ruth's Tiki gods, both no-strays and no-scavengers
Mtaman's harpsichord and lute

2. From Buy Mode:

All those nice travel posters I got for sending Phil to the toxic waste dump! (Which I discovered Saturday morning when I tried to buy them for my sim Marleen, the International Spy -- that's what's kicked this whole thing off!)

When I booted the game after fixing the duplicate GUID numbers and GUID Checker come up squeaky clean, I still couldn't find those objects in Buy Mode, and the tiki gods, harpsichord and lutes are still missing from the houses. But yes, they're all in my Downloads folder!

Anybody know what's going on?

Thanks,

~Yersinia.

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patchover
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know one thing I do without fail. I copy the Houses folder and date that copy. So I have a back up life.

Now I can go to the castle I story; it will be empty of every item that family has spent nothing getting rolleyes

surprise Did they move and not tell me???

whistle I just back out and go to the hood view

I get that copy of that House01 that is the most updated copy and stick that over the 'empty' home. Now this is the fun part of this story.


I go to drop that copy and of course the game says nono do you really want to overwrite this home here already???

This is the wierd part. My home that is a copy is 1MB. Exactly, the same size as the home I have in the game. yes

What I am saying is the empty home I see, is not really empty; according the the game. no
How does this game do this, and why? Am I the one that is broken or is this the nature of a coded game that we play so often wink


floorlaugh Now I have lost things that I had sweet mtaman tell me where it was, the clown painting that is in the Maxis files. huh

I had no idea where it was, until I was so lost; I asked! It was there all along blush


Does this happen often to me? Yes and I know why, it's because I am playing a game called The Sims biggrin


hi2 And I am Blue Patty and see things my way I guess laugh

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Raeven
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I should start this with the notation that I have never had any experience with getting an Objects Missing error from recatting objects. Everything I know about what recatting objects suggests to me this would never ever give an Objects Missing error. I also don't DO a lot of recatting so this is not something I have a lot of personal experience with.
(Guess I should start, though, because it pisses me off royally that most of my buymode catalog is filled with junk costing 0 or 1$ that I have o scroll through or worse, buy and have a house of little freakin' value. What ARE people thinking for heaven's sake??)

In my experience mysterious Object Missing messages come from 'hidden' objects (NPCs, controllers) being uninstalled, or some odd error I never did sort out properly that seemed to involve me having too many downloads in my game.

When I put back on the number of items my computer had to actually load in then it was able to load everything in. I never discovered a pattern of which items would disappear but I know there was one because once poofed it stayed poofed. I went an entire year without that 3 tiled Hot Date aquarium, for instance.

Obviously it's nothing I accidentally removed, I'd been careful during that year to look in every category for it (settling for the superstar aquarium instead) and later the file "came back" just fine without me doing any more than pulling my Downloads out of my game

One thing to keep in mind is that walls, flooring and roof files all count as "objects in this case.

Patchover wrote:
This is the weird part. My home that is a copy is 1MB. Exactly, the same size as the home I have in the game.


This is because houses do not actually hold the objects themselves.
They hold a list stating what objects should be there and where.

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patchover
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laugh Let me wrap my head around that Raeven whistle

So the home that Is and the home that Will Be are not really full of beds and hacks and all that. Just a huge listing of where I wanted it and what it is. rolleyes


Hmm question I wonder if someone that makes lists in my head; works in my game. I lose things temporary and then find it right where it was. laugh

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Raeven
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laugh
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Yersinia
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ummmm, OK Patch and Raeven....

So you're telling me I don't really have a malfunction? And here I was sure that not only do I have one, but now it's getting worse, because last night I went to Aelie's house, got the Missing Objects prompt (no surprise anymore, sigh), and found another object is gone -- in addition to the tiki gods (which I knew would be missing anyway since I noticed I lost those a few days ago), her dartboard (SimWardrobe use-at-home dartboard) was gone from its little wall in front of the house. However, unlike the other stuff which disappeared, this object was in Buy Mode...so I tried to buy her another one, she has plenty of money. I clicked on the dartboard in Buy Mode, and the game just hung up and froze (this was a first for me: I've had the game outright crash in the past, but never just hang and freeze!). After five minutes of watching my little OS X "beachball" spin, I force-quit out of the game. Yes, the computer is fine otherwise.

I'm almost afraid to boot it up again now (I went straight to my Powerbook simmies), but OK, I'll give it a try....


~Yersinia.

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Yersinia
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm, well, the objects are all still missing, and the game still hangs and freezes when I try to replace Aelie's dart board.

I guess I'll have to go do something drastic.

~Yersinia.

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Raeven
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yersinia wrote:
Ummmm, OK Patch and Raeven....

So you're telling me I don't really have a malfunction?


That isn't REMOTELY what I said.

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patchover
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raeven wrote:
Yersinia wrote:
Ummmm, OK Patch and Raeven....

So you're telling me I don't really have a malfunction?


That isn't REMOTELY what I said.



laugh You must be careful when listening to me, I am Blue Patty rolleyes

thumbsup Now our Raeven is pretty sharp in lots of ways. yes


floorlaugh Don't cha just LOVE that you and me are in the same sentence Raeven? laugh

wink I knew you didn't whistle

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Yersinia
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raeven wrote:
Yersinia wrote:
Ummmm, OK Patch and Raeven....

So you're telling me I don't really have a malfunction?


That isn't REMOTELY what I said.


OK, sorry. I have to admit my lack of ability to multitask is really messing me up right now. I had a really bad week with other things going wrong (toilet broke, microwave broke, Powerbook battery issue) in addition to the missing objects (oh yeah, now the SO medieval 12th Night table disappeared from Kerith's house, and Lena has also lost her autoclave!), and have done some really stupid stuff yesterday and today, like insert my bank card into the ATM and promptly forget my PIN number (until I got home, of course), and in trying to resolve my Virtual PC/Skin Doctor problem, when I posted to the Mac OS 9 list to see if I could find help on that, kept referring to Skin Doctor as "Skin Shrinker" -- and didn't realize it until I got a reply with my post quoted! Oh, and for the third time in a row, forgot to buy a teapot while I was at the supermarket! ... then put both ACs on at the same time and blew two fuses.... (And what's wrong with me, I was also trying to learn to hack something too?!)

Ya know, maybe I ought to just forget the hacking for now (at least I knew to give up on the "wifi on the Powerbook" idea) and focus on two things only: (1) finding out what's causing my objects to disappear, and (2) just play my Powerbook simmies when I need a fix. Never mind the "drastic" stuff for now, I'd probably mess it up being brainless like this. I was thinking of replacing my downloads folder with an old backup from before I had the problem (and reopening newer objects from their zips/reinstalling them), and if that didn't work, going all the way back to my Reference Point backup (no custom content) and doing the reintroduction again, then moving my simmies' FAM files in, but with this current lack of brain I seem to have, maybe that's not such a good idea either right now... I'd probably delete stuff I need or otherwise mess up with all that file jockeying!

Well, anyway, I wish someone could tell me what's wrong and what I have to do to fix this. It's bad enough that stuff has gone missing, but on top of that, some of the disappeared items are crucial! OK, the rabbit zappers are (mostly) adequate replacements for the tiki gods, and I have other tables, but the dartboard, the fire brigade, the autoclave, lute, harpsichord and travel posters -- there are no substitutes!

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wish I could help you. Have you reached the limit of downloads?

Don't ask me what that number is, but people talk about limits. I have had problems with that at home dartboard as well - it seems to be fine, then when I go to buy it it makes my game crash. It could just be that object has a glitch.

I was going to suggest putting in backups from a date when you know everything was working fine but you say you have done that already.

Given everything else that is happening to you this week, perhaps you've just gotten very distracted and stressed and overlooking stuff? Don't mean to sound patronising but I have overlooked stuff (in RL as well as in this game) particularly when I'm tired, stressed etc.

Other suggestions. Do these missing objects still have their OBJD? I know this is a problem that can happen during the process of making an object - the iff file loses it's OBJD resource and so becomes invisible both in Transmogrifier and in the game. Other posts have discussed this and the working theory is that it's linked to resource/memory issues causing the corruption. I honestly don't know if this could happen to an object during ordinary game play and you know whether you've pushed the resources of your Mac too hard, or had a power blackout or something.

I am assuming that when you realised you had lost for eg, the tiki god zappers you went and got them again from their zips and resintalled them? And they still didn't show up?

You didn't accidentally categorise anything the wrong way - ie make something build that shouldn't be build or make something community lot only for eg.

Have you run an Object ID checker? (apologies if you've already mentioned this)

I sympathise - it is frustrating to have the game working fine, then it suddenly goes bananas on you. However it is the nature of the game and we stick hundreds of custom objects made all over the world and glitches are bound to happen. Especially if you are using 3rd party programs as well.

Perhaps you could use Iffsnooper to re-clone the offending objects. You would need a magic cookie number and there is no problem with recloning other creator's objects for this purpose. You are trying to fix your personal game. I would suggest when recloning to leave the file name the same but add "FIX" to the iff file name so you can identify it in the download folders. Then add "fix" or something in the object description so you can identify it in the game. The fact that it has a new GUID number (because you re-cloned it) might be enough to have it working again.

I can't say this is what will happen, it's only suggestions for you to try.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hug hug hug hug hug

Five Hugs for Strength and Safe Feelings

I know this game can make us nuts. You have something and now it's gone. I have seen this all of a sudden on the goofy BBS. surprise

Had a cool object, now it's gone. sad

Your mention of the day just makes me know, you are sweet thing that just is overwhelmed. Be good to you and take it slow and easy hug

Just for a fun tad of me rolleyes

When the giant was in the hospital for his oops I need Brain Surgery help
Anyway, he was in the room where you have 24 hour service. It is the Intensive Care Unit ; aka ICU

Well being the person I am, and having two sister in laws and a nephew around; I called it ICQ the whole damn time. yes blush

My sweet sister in law that I adore, Diane finally gave in and had to tell me. He is not in ICQ, he is in ICU biggrin

ICQ is the program I have used a bazillion times. I talk to my family in California, my son in Massachucets and my daughter in Texas clap


floorlaugh You know I did notice many of the nurses would have a look about them after I spoke to them. I just thought, hmmm question



offtopic Okay I got us far enough off the page to give you a rest Yersinia

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Yersinia
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruthml wrote:
Wish I could help you. Have you reached the limit of downloads?


I don't know, but from what I see in the forums in terms of posts written by download junkies, my own collection seems pretty limited -- so I can't believe this could have happened to me yet. The serious download junkies talk about games that take 45 minutes or more to load because they have thousands of downloads. My game takes eight minutes to load (I timed it last week) and I have a present count of 958 objects in my Downloads folder (I added them up yesterday!). Yes, that includes the walls and floors too. All objects are subfoldered (less than 199 items per subfolder), and it would seem that all the missing ones are from one particular subfolder (which currently has 80 objects in it).

Quote:
Don't ask me what that number is, but people talk about limits. I have had problems with that at home dartboard as well - it seems to be fine, then when I go to buy it it makes my game crash. It could just be that object has a glitch.


Mmmmm, dang it on the dartboard, if I have to get rid of it. I'm really going to miss those throwing contests my Akaren women were having! But I never had it do anything bad to my game before this. It worked really well for me, until now. Oh well......

Quote:
I was going to suggest putting in backups from a date when you know everything was working fine but you say you have done that already.


Oh, I mentioned that I'd considered this, but haven't actually done it yet, due to my excessive susceptibiity to brain farts the last couple of days.

Quote:
Given everything else that is happening to you this week, perhaps you've just gotten very distracted and stressed and overlooking stuff? Don't mean to sound patronising but I have overlooked stuff (in RL as well as in this game) particularly when I'm tired, stressed etc.


I don't consider that you're patronizing me with this comment. It's true, I don't do stress well at all, and yes, everything stressed me out really bad this week -- all my malfunctions (both the game, plus my toilet, microwave and Powerbook battery issue) all happened on top of a week from hell at work too.

Quote:
Other suggestions. Do these missing objects still have their OBJD? I know this is a problem that can happen during the process of making an object - the iff file loses it's OBJD resource and so becomes invisible both in Transmogrifier and in the game. Other posts have discussed this and the working theory is that it's linked to resource/memory issues causing the corruption. I honestly don't know if this could happen to an object during ordinary game play and you know whether you've pushed the resources of your Mac too hard, or had a power blackout or something.


1. Um, well, I don't know exactly what you mean by this question, but I think I've gotten enough "instinct" to at least pick up the basic gist of your question -- and please correct me if I'm wrong. IOW, I just opened them all up in IFF Snooper and looked into the OBJD tab (and wrote down what I saw). I think I can give you the information which would answer the question (my guess is, no they didn't lose the OBJD resources, but I'm honestly not sure because I've never actually been in this realm with any objects before now).

In any case, here's what I saw. Let's begin with the tiki gods. I have three of them -- 5, 6 and 8.

Tiki god 5:

OBJD # 16807
OBJD Resource 1 of 1
Resource size 292
Download - No Pets Sign
OBJD

Tiki god 6:

OBJD # 16807
OBJD Resource 1 of 1
Resource size 292
No scavengers sign
OBJD

Tiki god 8 was exactly the same as Tiki god 6.

Lute:

OBJD # 16807
OBJD Resource 1 of 1
Resource size 292
Guitar - Electric
OBJD

Autoclave:

OBJD # 16807
OBJD Resource 1 of 1
Resource size 292
Trash Can Inside
OBJD

Travel Posters (all exactly the same):

OBJD # 16830
OBJD Resource 1 of 1
Resource size 292
Painting - Retro 3
OBJD

Medieval Tables:

OBJD # 16836
OBJD Resource 1 of 1
Resource size 292
Medieval Table Section (#) No EP
OBJD
Note that for each table section (I have four total), the (#) was 1, 2, 3 and 4, but other than that, they were all exactly the same.

Fire Brigade:

OBJD # 16820
OBJD Resource 1 of 1
Resource size 292
Sculptures - Fire Hydrant
OBJD

Hopefully I've provided enough info for you to be able to answer the question.

2. Actually, the power did go out briefly recently, and yes, while I was Simming, but I can't recall exactly when, i.e., if it was, say, just before my objects started disappearing.

Quote:
I am assuming that when you realised you had lost for eg, the tiki god zappers you went and got them again from their zips and resintalled them? And they still didn't show up?


True. I did it with all but the autoclave, Kerith's medieval table and the travel posters (surprise I can't find my travel poster zips!!! Think if I PM Mars or TheIms3 and ask real nice, they'll send me replacements?) but I did replace their files with .iffs from an almost month-old backup of my Downloads folder I still had -- didn't work though). I didn't do the autoclave or medieval tables (even though I have their zips) because, (a) since this didn't bring back the tiki gods, the lute or the harpsichord, why bother...and I have four medieval table zips, I can't figure out from the zip names which one was Kerith's -- and again, since this didn't work on the other stuff, why bother?

Quote:
You didn't accidentally categorise anything the wrong way - ie make something build that shouldn't be build or make something community lot only for eg.


Nope, absolutely not. I haven't recatted a single object since my Full Reinstall/Rebuild -- not one, for any reason. I've looked to see how some objects are categorized, but all I did was look. Didn't change a thing.

Quote:
Have you run an Object ID checker? (apologies if you've already mentioned this)


Apology accepted. smile Yes, I did. When I ran GUID Checker, I found some duplicates and fixed them, so my last run of GUID Checker was clean, and no, I haven't downloaded any new objects at all since.

Quote:
Perhaps you could use Iffsnooper to re-clone the offending objects. You would need a magic cookie number and there is no problem with recloning other creator's objects for this purpose. You are trying to fix your personal game. I would suggest when recloning to leave the file name the same but add "FIX" to the iff file name so you can identify it in the download folders. Then add "fix" or something in the object description so you can identify it in the game. The fact that it has a new GUID number (because you re-cloned it) might be enough to have it working again.


I have never done it myself, but yes, IFF Snooper can do cloning (and I even think I recall a sticky in one of the creator areas of the forum with a link as to where to get a magic cookie -- something I didn't think I'd need for a very long time, if ever! laugh (you people in here are contaminating me! laugh ) How soon I do this depends on your confirmation of my OBJD guess of "no" and whatever your comments and/or other people's are on my observations.

Quote:
I can't say this is what will happen, it's only suggestions for you to try.


And I appreciate them very much. Thank you for offering them. hug

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OOPS.....

jfade's psycho

Just lost a few more brain cells. 958 objects does not include the walls, roofs and floors. Like, why didn't I open up those folders and add them in too!? Um, OK, just did:

Walls 235
Floors 167
Roofs +34
637

958 + 637 = 1,595 total downloads

Um, not including skins (and please don't tell me they count as a possible cause of this problem, too!)....

Do I have too many? Anything you serious download junkies have to suggest?

jfade's psycho rolleyes

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you mentioned that you had a power black out while you were simming - was it after that blackout that this problem started popping up?

I know, it's hard to remember whether these objects had disappeared before or after the blackout but it may be a clue - they've somehow gotten corrupted by the game crashing.

But then you said you had tried reinstalling fresh versions of the missing objects from their original zips and it hadn't solved the problem.

Oh - a thought - you've mentioned that you might recat an object and save it into the original zip so that it's forever recatted right. Did I remember this correctly? I was wondering if you could've done something to an object (or the game did something) and then when it was saved back into the zip you wrote over the working version with this corrupted version?

Have you tried downloading one of the objects again from its website and using that version to completely replace one of the missing objects?

The missing OBJD resource is simple to spot. It's either there or it isn't. If when you open up Iffsnooper you can see that an OBJD resource is listed then that object has it. Which means it has a GUID. The only objects to check a little further are any multi-tile object - because say, a 2 tile object will have 3 objds - one for tile A and tile B and a master one which links the 2 together. If an OBJD goes missing it is this master one.

I think you do have to count skins, walls, floors etc. Because when yo think about it the maximum number of downloads is not exactly a fixed number - it is dependent on how much you can push your computer. I know some players have a vast loading time of 30 mins or more - but is that due to how slow their computer is or the vast number of downloads installed? It's probably a combination of both.

Personally I don't know what is the limit for downloads. Let me do a quick count of what I have: This is currently what I have loaded for my roman hood.

Floors; 501 (all the floors - no wonder I can never find anything - but it's more than 1 theme hood's worth)
Roofs: 63
Skins: 1719 but this includes animation files, bmps, cmx & skn files as well as a handful of text files just sitting there.
Walls: 527 (but this is a more than one neighbourhood theme's worth)
Objects: 6135.

!!! I had no idea I had so much stuff. And I noticed that while most folders were small in number Wood for Sims had 219 objects inside it - so that is definitely well over the 199 rule. (whatever that rule is)

Yes finding stuff is a pain but the load up time is around 10mins. I am getting to the stage where I need to clean up the game and other stuff on my hard drive though to keep it all running smoothly. Photoshop files do tend to be big.

But this does not solve your problem and again I hestiate directly comparing what i have to your's because we have different systems. Whether your mac can handle the amount of stuff you have though is something to consider if you think it could be an issue.

Perhaps try installing backup files and see if that does that trick. Recloning stuff is sort of the last resort when other theories have been exhausted.

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