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Missing Objects: For Real!
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mtaman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yersinia wrote:
...and it would seem that all the missing ones are from one particular subfolder (which currently has 80 objects in it).


Since they all seem to be from the same subfolder, perhaps something happened to it and the game isn't seeing it. Are you putting the fresh versions back into this subfolder? Try taking this subfolder out of your game and make a new subfolder in the game with the same things but fresh ones to see if that helps.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruthml wrote:
you mentioned that you had a power black out while you were simming - was it after that blackout that this problem started popping up?

I know, it's hard to remember whether these objects had disappeared before or after the blackout but it may be a clue - they've somehow gotten corrupted by the game crashing.


I distinctly remember when the problem started -- the afternoon of Saturday June 9th. I was playing my sim Marleen and decided to buy her the travel posters, but when I went to Buy Mode to get them, I couldn't find them. Since then, every time I went into a different house, I'd get the Missing Objects prompt and finding out things were actually gone from the houses. As to the power outage while Simming, it happened on a week night -- and the power was out for a grand total of five seconds, maybe: everything (lights, AC, computer) shut off and turned right back on again. Of course, the computer and the game had to be rebooted. All I can say to the timing is that I think it was a Tuesday or Wednesday evening, but I can't recall for the life of me if it was the Tuesday or Wednesday before June 9th or after.

Quote:
But then you said you had tried reinstalling fresh versions of the missing objects from their original zips and it hadn't solved the problem.


Yes, I did that for some of them, but when it didn't work, I didn't bother for subsequent discoveries.

Quote:
Oh - a thought - you've mentioned that you might recat an object and save it into the original zip so that it's forever recatted right. Did I remember this correctly? I was wondering if you could've done something to an object (or the game did something) and then when it was saved back into the zip you wrote over the working version with this corrupted version?


1. Late fall or so 2006, I recatted a few objects/changed some prices, but no, I didn't make "new original zips" of them. Back then, I opened up the ones in the active game folder with IFF Snooper, recatted/did a regular save on the files, and that was it. I know now, that was stupid, but that was the first time I'd ever used IFF Snooper. If I was going to recat now, I'd open the original zip, recat and save outside the game folder, and then replace the file in the game with my new recatted file. In any case, I personally no longer care where an object is categorized, i.e., let's take curtains as one example: personally I think curtains belong in Decorative (so if I created any of my own, I'd cat them to show up in decorative), but usually they're found in Lighting because the creators base them on lights and don't change that categorization -- well, if I can't find something, I only need to know now "where did the creator put it?" so I know where to look for it. Even if I wouldn't have put it there had I had created it, all I need to know now is where it is so I can find it when I need it.

2. In January 2007 when I blew up my game trying the school hack, the testing "a la Bruja" (I used her method) came down to a diagnosis of the symptoms (houses crashing on save, plus slow sims in a couple of the houses) to "corrupted lots, corrupted objects or both." That was also the time I learned, for the first time, that the way to protect objects from becoming corrupted by the game itself when it crashes, is to make them read-only. Not knowing any better, of course I had never done that with my objects, so who knows how many of them had gotten corrupted with all that crashing! So, when I decided to reinstall and rebuild the game from scratch, with only my evicted simmies, I reopened all my objects from original zips and made them read-only. Sure, maybe it was only a few of them which had actually gone bad, but I had enough to know I'd lose my mind if I tested every single one of them individually: so I decided to reprocess all of them from scratch. In any event, not only did I make all my objects at the time read-only to protect them from corruption, but everything I've downloaded since, I've also made read-only before I even put it in the game!

So my question would have to be this, now: Since every single object in my Downloads folder is read-only, how could anything even get corrupted?

Quote:
Have you tried downloading one of the objects again from its website and using that version to completely replace one of the missing objects?


No, this I haven't tried. What would it accomplish? I mean, if an object was bad on the original site, wouldn't it just not have worked in my game from the first? All my disappeared objects, with the sole exception of the travel posters, originally showed up in Buy Mode once I installed them, and at the time they vanished, had already been in sims' houses, working perfectly well (well, OK, the lute and harpsichord never made any sounds, but the sims played them anyway). As to the travel posters -- I originally did see them in Buy Mode; the reason why they didn't disappear from any houses was because I simply hadn't bought them for any sims yet. It was when I tried to buy them for Marleen that they disappeared from Buy Mode.

Quote:
The missing OBJD resource is simple to spot. It's either there or it isn't. If when you open up Iffsnooper you can see that an OBJD resource is listed then that object has it. Which means it has a GUID. The only objects to check a little further are any multi-tile object - because say, a 2 tile object will have 3 objds - one for tile A and tile B and a master one which links the 2 together. If an OBJD goes missing it is this master one.


Thank you. So, all the OBJD resources on my list were present, so this doesn't explain why my objects are missing. Just two more questions, then: (1) Since these all said "OBJD resource 1 of 1" -- that means not only do they have their OBJD resources, they're single tile objects? and (2) if I looked at a multi-tiled object, it would say "OBJD Resource 1 of 3" (or 1 of 4 or whatever)? -- if so, which one is this master you refer to, 1 of 3 (not 2 of 3 or 3 of 3)?

Quote:
I think you do have to count skins, walls, floors etc. Because when yo think about it the maximum number of downloads is not exactly a fixed number - it is dependent on how much you can push your computer. I know some players have a vast loading time of 30 mins or more - but is that due to how slow their computer is or the vast number of downloads installed? It's probably a combination of both.


Er, uh, if we throw my skins into the mix, there are 2,916 files in my Skins folder. Adding that to the 1,595 total objects, we get 4,511. But a number of the files in the skin folder are animations for objects, rather than actual skins... However, I didn't think skins really counted because I'd read somewhere, here in SO I'm pretty sure, that skins don't load until the game actually calls for them, such as when you open up a house and it calls up the skins of the simmies who live there, or when you change a sim's clothes (or buy him/her new clothes), buy a pet, plus, of course, when you open a new neighborhood for the first time and the game populates Downtown, Vacation Island, Magic Town (and I guess Studio Town if you have SS), skins get called up by the game as needed. Oh, and now that I think of it, probably when a baby changes to a child, a skin has to be called up.

Quote:
Personally I don't know what is the limit for downloads. Let me do a quick count of what I have: This is currently what I have loaded for my roman hood.

Floors; 501 (all the floors - no wonder I can never find anything - but it's more than 1 theme hood's worth)
Roofs: 63
Skins: 1719 but this includes animation files, bmps, cmx & skn files as well as a handful of text files just sitting there.
Walls: 527 (but this is a more than one neighbourhood theme's worth)
Objects: 6135.

!!! I had no idea I had so much stuff. And I noticed that while most folders were small in number Wood for Sims had 219 objects inside it - so that is definitely well over the 199 rule. (whatever that rule is)

Yes finding stuff is a pain but the load up time is around 10mins. I am getting to the stage where I need to clean up the game and other stuff on my hard drive though to keep it all running smoothly. Photoshop files do tend to be big.


OK, my calculator tells me that your actual grand total (skins plus all other types of downloads) is 8,882. Mine is 4,511 once I add the stuff in the skins folder (958 in Downloads + 637 in Floors/Roofs/Walls + 2916 in Skins). So you have almost twice the number of custom files I have, you're taking ten minutes to boot your game and I'm taking eight to boot mine. Interesting. Well, at least I don't have any Photoshop to clean up after!

Quote:
But this does not solve your problem and again I hestiate directly comparing what i have to your's because we have different systems. Whether your mac can handle the amount of stuff you have though is something to consider if you think it could be an issue.


No, it doesn't solve my problem, but it was an interesting digression nonetheless (and it's kind of fun to compare too, IMO) -- and leads me to a question:

If I have in fact reached my download limit (whatever the acual number may be), is my disappearing object problem one of the symptoms of having reached it?

If this is in fact the case, then simply culling objects should fix it. I can think of plenty of objects (including some walls and floors) which, while I like having them there because I might use them, don't really have to be there, and I wouldn't consider it a tragedy if removing them would fix this problem, since crucial objects have been vanishing out from under my poor simmies!

Quote:
Perhaps try installing backup files and see if that does that trick. Recloning stuff is sort of the last resort when other theories have been exhausted.


Yeah, OK, I'll do this. I have a CD backup dated June 3rd with all my custom content from then, which is before I started losing things. I'll exchange the present Downloads, Walls, Floors and Roofs folders with the ones from the backup. But... just not right this moment, hahaha -- this afternoon maybe (I need another break from it). Right now: start the laundry, and try the suggestion I got from my Mac OS 9 list concerning Virtual PC.

Thank you for everything, I'll post back later or tomorrow to let you know how it went with the backups.

~Yersinia.

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Raeven
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If I have in fact reached my download limit (whatever the acual number may be), is my disappearing object problem one of the symptoms of having reached it?


Yes. As I mentioned in my post, the one time I had the mysterious objects problem this was the cause.

On the possibility that it's corrupt objects:
I dont know how they might become corrupt if they are read-only or why this corruption would be "spreading" through your object but that's still something I would not rule out.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raeven wrote:
Quote:
If I have in fact reached my download limit (whatever the acual number may be), is my disappearing object problem one of the symptoms of having reached it?


Yes. As I mentioned in my post, the one time I had the mysterious objects problem this was the cause.

On the possibility that it's corrupt objects:
I dont know how they might become corrupt if they are read-only or why this corruption would be "spreading" through your object but that's still something I would not rule out.


All right then. Thank you. My G4 game is now officially shut down until I totally clear this up (probably a couple of weeks: this is the kind of task I can't do for more than an hour or two at a time without going nuts, and I'm already well past nuts). To that end, I'm going to start culling objects/walls/floors I don't use, and the ones I decide to keep, I'll reopen/reprocess from original zips including making them read-only again (that should take care of the "maybe they somehow got corrupted even though they were read-only" issue. That is, a total makeover for my Downloads folder/subfolders. And -- since I obviously don't have room for an infinite number of objects (and I'm not really what one would call willing to spend time doing this repeatedly/periodically), and I really do have what I absolutely need, I guess I'm done downloading too. All I have to do is get back the original zips from the travel posters (I don't know what happened to them!!), since I still do want to buy them for Marleen.

And yes, I'm still fighting with Virtual PC, too. jfade's psycho Although I just had to shut it down and ran away from it screaming (Mac OS 9 listers say I can make a shared folder -- the shared folder is how to get over my Berlin Wall, so to speak, so my emulated Windoze will interface with stuff in my Mac OS -- and I found out how to do that, except it won't let me click on the "additions" icon the instructions tell me I have to click on to install the additions which will enable creating a shared folder (which will be my Sims game, of course)! angry
angrypc explode

I won't let this fight go just yet (even if I have to get rid of the VPC 5 and reinstall VPC 2, which may be the case), because if I can run Skin Doctor on all my skins once I cull/reprocess my objects (including running GUID Checker when I reinstall the "New & Improved" Downloads folder), I will once again have a 100% perfect totally spiffy squeaky clean G4 game back full up on transwarp. I just hope that in the meanwhile, my Powerbook continues to behave (at least, plugged in), because I do need my simmie fixes.

thanks1 everybody!

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I did not actually make clear in any of my posts (i think) .. when I had the problem (due to too many objects) I found that the walls, skins etc did not have any impact. If I took X amount of objects out of my game I got my missing objects back (X amount by file size not number of objects). The game did not care whcih objects I removed as long as the mount installed was under a certain volume (file size).

This may very well have been because I do not download many walls, skins etc so they did not have much impact when I removed and replaced them.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best of luck -

culling objects can be difficult - oh sometimes it can be easy like deciding you don't need 6 recolours of the same toilet laugh And then there are ones that don't look as good as they could, so quality can be a guide too - unless it's something that's really needed for a theme. I hope it's not too painful!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes, best wishes at the unending task of culling.

We all reach that point and then reach it again and then again and....well you get the picture.

In fact, I am in the midst of culling now so I can add new things to the game!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know Raven... I don't do walls, floors, roofs or skins. I download OBJECTS desire

jfade's psycho Man if I got that many Game Data files, their limits are sky high and ridiculous. I would hate to sort through that many walls or floors yuck
Yet, I am paging through MANY pages of objects. yes All creators put their stuff in more than one area, most of them do. I have not recatagorized so they are all what they were. whistle

It appears to me that we put up with what we need. I need objects, the more the better dance


When I put mine over the 4.2 GB it would not load cry

Now I play in Windows Version, and I am pushing up to there rolleyes

Windows version seems to let the game be happier for some reason. hug


One thing I know about me, I won't give up nono

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Yersinia
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raeven wrote:
One thing I did not actually make clear in any of my posts (i think) .. when I had the problem (due to too many objects) I found that the walls, skins etc did not have any impact. If I took X amount of objects out of my game I got my missing objects back (X amount by file size not number of objects). The game did not care whcih objects I removed as long as the mount installed was under a certain volume (file size).

This may very well have been because I do not download many walls, skins etc so they did not have much impact when I removed and replaced them.


Well, when I get started with it, I'll do the Downloads folder stuff first, actually. I know I downloaded bunches of sets where I only needed a few things from the sets and never used anything else -- I'm sure I'll find plenty I can easily get rid of that way. Walls and floors I'm hoping not to have to cull too much (I had to download quite a few walls and floors for Akaren reasons, hee hee).

If I'm lucky, just cleaning up the Downloads folder will bring back what I lost (i.e., the essential stuff particularly!) and I won't have to do the walls and floors also, but, of course I need to see what actually happens once I finish culling and test the game again.

Thanks for sharing your experience with it.

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruthml wrote:
Best of luck -

culling objects can be difficult - oh sometimes it can be easy like deciding you don't need 6 recolours of the same toilet laugh And then there are ones that don't look as good as they could, so quality can be a guide too - unless it's something that's really needed for a theme. I hope it's not too painful!!


Deciding what to get rid of, I don't expect to be too bad, because my last few trips through the catalogs I've seen a number of items which made me ask myself, "why do I even have that? I never used it and can't think of any sim who needs it." And yes, that includes the "why do I need that fridge in five different colors? laugh Black and white match everything -- if I keep just the black and white ones, I can use them for any kitchen.

The part of this I'm not particularly looking forward to is the file jockeying...you know, making sure I have the filenames right for the objects I choose to get rid of. I know I know a lot of them, but I also know I don't know all of them, and I don't want to throw out stuff I still need in the game. And then I'm also not looking forward to having to finally organize my zips either. I decided that it would be a good idea to keep the zips of the objects I cull from the game in a separate folder from the ones of objects I plan to keep using. (Maybe someday I'll find a use for the current culls, and want to make some trades.)

Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something that I do to help know which file is which is put the iff file name in the catelog description at the end of the description when I'm checking the categorization of the item. Some creators, like Ruth, already do this for you.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtaman wrote:
Something that I do to help know which file is which is put the iff file name in the catelog description at the end of the description when I'm checking the categorization of the item. Some creators, like Ruth, already do this for you.


Hahahahaha laugh Figures, the people who do this, Ruth specifically -- well, only one of her objects has so far made my cull list, temporarily at least (because I'm having problems with it: I'll try it again after the cleanup and if it doesn't work then, I'll let her know and hope it can be fixed: originally it worked great, and then it got a bit wonky maybe a few weeks ago) -- are the ones whose objects I don't want to get rid of!

As I've been making the cull list (Buy Mode culls are listed, still going through Build Mode), I find that the overwhelming majority of the stuff not only does not have an .iff filename listed, but also don't have creator names, websites, really distinguishable object names (Tiled Counter for four different ones) or anything else identifiable. I'm going to have to open the crap up under IFF Snooper and check the BMPs on the Tiled Counters, for instance, because I want to keep two and throw two out. And then there's the multitude of ones where the creator never changed the name or description from the items they used as bases.

I'm finding that I can tell by looking easy, what I want to keep and what to get rid of, but I'm going to end up going homicidal when I have to determine which files actually correspond to these objects. Grrrrr. angry

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I find that the overwhelming majority of the stuff not only does not have an .iff filename listed, but also don't have creator names, websites, really distinguishable object names (Tiled Counter for four different ones) or anything else identifiable.


my pet hate!! Perhaps the creator was too busy, or not good at English so didn't know what to write. I try to always put something even if it's very dull sounding - and the file name. Nofrena got me started on that. I saw all the Wood for Sims objects had the file name included in the description and I realised how useful that was! Especially as all the file names are in German of course.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ruthml wrote:

my pet hate!! Perhaps the creator was too busy, or not good at English so didn't know what to write. I try to always put something even if it's very dull sounding - and the file name. Nofrena got me started on that. I saw all the Wood for Sims objects had the file name included in the description and I realised how useful that was! Especially as all the file names are in German of course.


Hey, maybe I should just make this easy on myself -- Cull everything that wasn't created by Ruth, then to replace lost furniture or other things, go back to her sites and download everything she's ever made that I didn't pick up before. Hahahahahaha!

Um, well, it was a thought, anyway...

laugh

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair if we as downloaders slowed down and did not pour a huge amount of items into our games willy nilly there'd not really be much reason for people to spend a few extra minutes (which can few like the straw that'll break your back if you have been working on something until the end of your patience) to add every piece of info you can think of into the descriptions.

Sure there are times when we don't know at first that we'll never end up using those 2 counters and theres even more times when we could not tell from the webpage images that it's got some flaw we can't live with but the latter can be dealt with right away and the former would be one of those times you do have to hunt it down ... we'd just have less times to deal with it. (I should note that I can see this being a much more valid desire for people who have to swap (themed) Downloads folders in and out but even then processing things when you download would help out a lot more than a bit of text a year later)

I, personally, HATE having to remember to go round and change the buymode descriptions when I am done with something. When I am done I feel DONE. More often than not that sucker is packaged up and ready to go when I have to retrieve it, fiddle with text no one pays much attention to (unless they DO decide it's "crap" and want to toss it out) and repackage it.

My motivation in doing so is not actually to accommodate those who decided to junk my items but to add "free to clone" or the url in so object makers can come check the cloning policy.

My own Downloads folder is a mess. I am just as guilty of pouring things in willy nilly as anyone else. And If I ever get myself to clean it out it'll be equally difficult for me to Cull or to Fix (there's a bout 10,000,000 items with a 0 or 1 price and that's just ridiculous. I'd also like to hack a few things to go on water or with SSoW hacks etc). So I definitely sympathize. I just can't see myself asking people to put more work into their projects than they are voluntarily doing just because I'm a big ole lazy butt-butt.

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