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Experiment in simanthropology
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bruja
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 3:07 pm    Post subject: Experiment in simanthropology Reply with quote

It's a good thing that I'm the queen of delayed gratifiacation. yes

Inspired by Yersinia's Akaren world, I started to imagine a whole new theme well over 2 years ago. I worked out the rules for a matrilocal, matrilineal, largely exogamous society - and kept running through possible scenarios, to see how they could work within the constraints of the game.

Then I got fascinated by the horcrux idea 17mars talked about, and decided that I would make a separate game for each theme I was interested in.

Maxis names for the away lot sims are horrible - and that means a lot of typing, so that when I finally populate the whole hood for the new theme, the names the game assigns won't be from the Maxis list. The vacationers alone require approximately 50 each of surnames, men's names, women's names, girls' names, and boys' names.sad

And I carried over the idea of having no Maxis skin bmps in the fars, so that the game couldn't make all the Townies look alike, etc. - but this meant collecting or making enough skins for every theme.

I had no contemp/modern stuff other than maxis in my game at all, but there are some great downloads available, so I set my simanthropology experiment in an imaginary future, and borrowed the idea of spacefaring merchant families from Heinlein's Citizen of the galaxy.

My new theme hood/game represents a lattice ship, with each lot a self-contained space pod connected to the ship corridors by locks. This means walls on the front and sides - the back edges and overroof are space age screen with a sky projection, and artificial "natural" lighting, to encourage gardens grown for oxygen as well as beauty. And that requires me to make my own buildings on all my lots, though I really don't care for that aspect of the game.

The away lots can be more varied, since Vacation Island lots will be on-planet resorts, and the others will be space stations the lattice ships dock at. I need to set up Vacation and Downtown lots, the latter so that my female clan members can go mate-hunting. (Marriage is going to have to use Inge's ferns, and the children will become adults courtesy of SE3D.) If I ever get this thing off the ground, I'll go into details.

I'm still collecting downloads, and going through my older zips, for the objects I need. And, of course, I still have nowhere near enough skins. but I thought that the skins and the objects would all be very similar for all the families.

However, as I get to the stage where this theme is something that I might be able to play sometime this next decade, I find that the theme clans have started to make totally unexpected demands. Only 1 of 4 clans wants to use the furniture and decor I thought I'd use for all. Furthermore, I'm informed that the hairstyles and clothing styles I had in mind won't do at all, so that I need to go mesh hunting.

I know that Yersinia's sims seem to have minds of their own sometimes, but do theme or other simmies get so independent and demanding for anyone else? surprise

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Last edited by bruja on Wed May 05, 2010 6:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Oreocreme
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, Bruja. That sounds like quite a project! I am looking forward to seeing it when you get it done.

"Simanthropology." I love it!

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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Interesting!!

Keeping my eye on this one!! yes

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh, so you're finally going to get those Zarathuus simmies going, Bruja? biggrin

KEWL!!!!! biggrin thumbsup As a fellow simanthropologist, I can definitely tell you there's nothing quite as exciting as having headstrong sims in a female dominant culture! laugh

On a similar note -- that is, the idea of having gotten it in one's head to start a new theme hood/installation TWO YEARS AGO -- to be collecting downloads and so on for that long...I'm in exactly that same boat with my ta'Valsh neighborhood!

Thought I was done collecting downloads and "all" I had to do was finish making the food replicator, but I found some more stuff to download for it a couple days ago....so I downloaded it and was actually thinking to prep it, BUT...I still don't have the replicator finished, and I probably still don't know enough about hacking to finish it either, seeing how I should finish Sims College ILH first.

Which means: I doubt I'll get to start ta'Valsh any time soon either. jfade's psycho rolleyes

::::sigh:::::

~Yersinia.

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Thalia
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was L. Frank Baum who once lamented that his characters just would not do what he wanted them to.

I gotta say, though, Bruja, when you said this

Quote:
a matrilocal, matrilineal, largely exogamous society


my heart went pitter-patter. I'd love to hear how you're working that out within the game.

And I know this whole sort of thing, while a big enough job on a PC, is even trickier on a Mac, but now I'm getting awfully tempted myself.

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thalia wrote:
I think it was L. Frank Baum who once lamented that his characters just would not do what he wanted them to.

I gotta say, though, Bruja, when you said this

Quote:
a matrilocal, matrilineal, largely exogamous society


my heart went pitter-patter. I'd love to hear how you're working that out within the game.

And I know this whole sort of thing, while a big enough job on a PC, is even trickier on a Mac, but now I'm getting awfully tempted myself.


As written, the Akaren are (usually) matrilocal, always matrilineal, but only exogamous about half the time (some Akaren clans use a very nasty word with regards to out-clan marriages, ihns'vata, which means "corrupt in blood" and is identical in bigoted sentiment to the Earth word "miscegenation").....

Anyway, I not only pull off the matrilocal/matrilineal stuff in the game, but I can even play out traditional Akaren weddings. OK, I don't have a PC so can't tell you if that part is easier or harder on a PC but it's fine (and lots of fun) on Mac. IMO the only bad things about being a Mac Simmer now are skin issues and theming away lot sims. laugh

In the game, though -- to get the absolutely essential matrilineal succession, unless I create some of the couples AS couples (with the wife's last name), ALL the marriages have to be played matrilocal -- i.e., husband marries into his wife's house and takes her name, so the kids can end up with their mother's line-name (what we would call a "last name"). Since I enjoy playing Akaren courtships, most of my Akaren sims were created as singles and I had the single men marry into the womens' houses -- I only have two families I can think of where I created the couple together. But...

In a "real" Akaren marriage, the couple usually sets up a brand new tent together (or if they use one of the ones they lived in as singles, they use the bigger one! LOL). Now, while the majority of Akaren marriages are endogamous, sometimes there is intermarriage between clans. In these cases, usually the husband does go to his wife's village, but it has happened where the wife went to her husband's village (but their kids still got her line-name). Also, the man doesn't take his wife's line-name -- he keeps his own, intact if they came from the same village, or with the line-name prefix altered if they were from different clans/villages and he moved to hers (but the wife will also alter her line-name prefix if she moves to her husband's village). To wit:

When Sordel a'Meir of Khiret married Majri Sarielin a'Yinde (also of Khiret), he kept his line-name (a'Meir), Majri kept hers (a'Yinde), and their children all have the line-name a'Yinde. And when their eldest son, Tajik a'Yinde, married Lanirh Nelan a'Karijhe -- he keeps his name and the kids are all a'Karijhe. But my sims of them -- they're the a'Karijhe family (including Tajik). However:

When Reaka Delihn i'Vhaer of Elisd married Olesh a'Heian of Khiret, and she moved to Khiret to live with him, she altered her line-name prefix to a'Vhaer, while Olesh kept his line-name intact. Their childrens' line-name is a'Vhaer...and their sims are the a'Vhaer family (including Olesh).

When Ashias i'Lhorja of the Elisd married Rela ni'Talir ae'Srai of Aliset -- he moved to Aliset, his line-name became ae'Lhorja and their children have the line-name ae'Srai.

Now how would I pull off an exogamous marriage in the game? I mean, there are a few, in fact, Tajik's clansman and best friend Nurik is married to a woman born of Elisd -- one of Ashias's nieces in fact! laugh Ummmm...lemme think here. At the time my sims of Nurik and Reniha were single, it was way before I got the idea to make each clan-village its own hood, so I just played them matrilocally on their wedding day (they were living in separate tents..houses...whatever) -- when they got married, it was at her house, so all's well, and they have 3 kids, and the family name is a'Lhorja (Reniha's full name, as a married woman, is Reniha Tiyal a'Lhorja, benara ih'Nurik). So....what would I do if faced with this NOW? Well let's see....Nurik met Reniha when the Elisd had offered the Khiret sanctuary after a Dry but immediately prior to a Great Migration, so presuming I had created Nurik as a single male in my Khiret hood (and Reniha as a single woman in my Elisd hood), I'd have to move his FAM file to the Elisd hood, play out their romance in Elisd, send them repeatedly to my Migration community lots, then have them marry in Elisd (at her house) , after which time I'd move the new FAM file (with them as a couple) to the Khiret hood, where they live together after the Great Migration.

Oh and if you wanna have fun with Akaren line-names, line-name prefixes and matrilineal successions, there's always the tale of what happened with Nurik's two feuding sisters Aelie and Kosa, both of whom were married to Marseen warriors for awhile (for which they were both Severed from their birth clan of Khiret), and who both ended up in Sekkara! And yes I have sims of them, too...in my Sekkara hood of course.

Gosh, I can't believe I actually remember all this stuff! surprise

And I'm culture-shocked thinking of it at the moment, since right now I'm actually playing my HUMAN simmies!

~Yersinia.

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Thalia
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow I think I actually followed that. I admit I tend to keep my Sims single, so I haven't gotten many of them married--but doesn't the game automatically give the Sim who marries in to a family the same name as the family? Or do they get to keep their old name? I can't remember now. I.e., don't your husbands get given their wives' line-name automatically by the game?

Now I want to know what those prefixes mean, a, ae, i. I'd guess they are the same word in different dialects? :)

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thalia wrote:
Wow I think I actually followed that. I admit I tend to keep my Sims single, so I haven't gotten many of them married--but doesn't the game automatically give the Sim who marries in to a family the same name as the family? Or do they get to keep their old name? I can't remember now. I.e., don't your husbands get given their wives' line-name automatically by the game?

Now I want to know what those prefixes mean, a, ae, i. I'd guess they are the same word in different dialects? :)


Yes, the game gives newlywed sims the same last name as their mate (and that's the last name/line-name of the spouse whose house they get married in/the spouse moves into as the result of the marriage. Although *I* still mentally identify the husbands with their own line-names (either intact or with line-name prefix altered, the game has them listed with their wives' line-names -- so my sim of Tajik a'Yinde is actually (in the game) Tajik a'Karijhe, because he got married at his wife's house, which I did on purpose, so their kids could have their mother Lanirh's line-name. I also have some Akaren sim couples with the wrong line-name prefix because I "forgot" there was going to be an exogamous marriage when I was in create-a-sim with the females.

Anyway -- matrilocal/matrilineal marriage and family structure is easy enough in game; exogamy is a little harder and necessitates a little bit of imagination on the part of the player. laugh

Ahhh, about the line-name prefixes...I am very tempted to just copy in one of my own most vital Reference Materials from the Akaren worldbuild (it specifically names 23 Akaren clans, the ages at which they hold their adulthood rituals, the titles of their leaders and not only the line-name prefixes but proper family name schemes for each...maybe I will later if this discussion goes on "too much" or if anyone is "too curious!" laugh

Anyway, yeah, the line-name prefix is, basically. a dialect thing which distinguishes someone as belonging to a particular clan -- be it by birth, marriage or adoption (here I go, thinking of Aelie and Kosa again)...

Oh, and in my contemporary human hoods, I have way more singles and way fewer kids than I do in the Akaren villages.

laugh

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, I acknowledge that a lot of the stuff I intend to do is much, much easier, especially since I have SE3D, than it would be using a mac. notworthy to those of you know manage these complications on a mac.It's hard enough on a pc.

And yes, I think I followed Yersinia's examples.

One way I'm going to have it easier is that marriage is not going to exist. No adult male will ever live in a clan house. Instead, once a woman has made a match, the two will live in a mating house as a couple until such time as they have conceived a baby and raised it to childhood. Then the mother and the child move back into her clan house. The father stays in the mating cottage until he either mates with her or another woman, or until another mating couple needs the house.

Residents of the mating houses use the 'name' of the cottage on a temporary basis as a surname. Clan affiliation is shown through the forename.

If a father who moves out of a mating cottage was born to one of the clans, he moves into the Brotherhouse. If he mated into the ship wing, he moves into the Sirehome.

Surnames turned out to be impossible, since only the eponymous matriarch of a clan house (think von und zu) is not subject to hiving as the family produces children and they grow into adults. All those mating women bringing home babies will outgrow the optimum clan population. laugh

So when the woman with child returns, I have to check to see if the growing up and moving out rules apply. If the child would become the 4th child, the oldest child 'grows up', so that there are still only 3 children. If the new adult is male, he moves into the Brotherhouse. However, if there are now 4 adult women, the second and third oldest hive off to form a new clan house, taking their non-adult children with them. (This takes a bit of messing around with a placeholder sim - a technique I learned from blue sage and 17 mars).

Note that every woman will, as hiving continues, end up as the eponymous matriarch of her own clan house. The newly hived family will belong to the same uber clan, but a different subclan, and will stay as close friends of each other.

Fathers, whether in one of the mating houses or the Brotherhouse or the Sirehome, are expected to take an interest in their children.

The first hood, as I start the game, is a colony carefully selected and funded by four clans to relieve pressure on the ship wing from which they came - in fact on a different ship, which had reached capacity. Each clan paid for a starter clan home, plus an equal share of the costs of the Brotherhouse and the Sirehome, as well as the mating houses.

Each of the new clan houses has 2 adult women, who each have one child. 4 adult men are part of the new colony: 2 clan bred, and 2 from outsider matings. Each of the men is the father of 2 of the children who form part of the colony.

There are some rules and taboos to keep mating at a non-incestuous level, partly required to keep the long-lived Zhu'ur from mating with their own great-grandparents, but I don't expect to have to use much except that in-clan mating is totally out of the question until the game has been active for quite a while.

And all the adults have sim jobs and the kids go to sim schools.

I've been messing with a trial lot, changing the road to grass and flowers, over which the mag lel vehciles will travel, but that's a lot of very boring work.

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh wow, that really IS fascinating!

Sounds to me like some combination of the Simlogical move plants and apartment hack would be necessary to make this all work.

What's a placeholder sim, though, and what "technique" did you learn from Mars and Blue?

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yersinia wrote:


Sounds to me like some combination of the Simlogical move plants and apartment hack would be necessary to make this all work.


The Simlogical plants, definitely. And SE3d, which is easier than using iffpencil2 to change kids into adults, etc.

I've never used apartment hacks, and I don't see any need for them for this theme.


Yersinia wrote:

What's a placeholder sim, though, and what "technique" did you learn from Mars and Blue?

~Yersinia.


A place holder sim is one that usually isn't played, but is used to set up a new family withe the desired family name. Then you can move your existing sims in and the placeholder out, leaving a new family made out of part of an old one.

Or, when Blue sage had a wealthy farmer who owned several lots, the peasants were the placeholders, and the wealthy ones moved from estate to estate. 17mars used a housesitter family when she wanted to move a single sim into another family temporarily, without losing the house and furnishings, etc, so that sshe could move the sim back.

I wish I could play with my theme now, instead of churning out instructions on how to run a flower show, and finding the notebook that I hauled through 7 states, brought home, and promptly misplaced in a house full of books and papers. I kept all my notes on the new theme, and on all the real life stuff I was working on in the car in that notebook, and now it has run away from home. mad

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farms: smile

http://simblesseoblige.com/viewtopic.php?t=4157&highlight=farm
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruja wrote:
A place holder sim is one that usually isn't played, but is used to set up a new family withe the desired family name. Then you can move your existing sims in and the placeholder out, leaving a new family made out of part of an old one.


OK, but where do you move the placeholder sim?

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yersinia wrote:
bruja wrote:
A place holder sim is one that usually isn't played, but is used to set up a new family withe the desired family name. Then you can move your existing sims in and the placeholder out, leaving a new family made out of part of an old one.


OK, but where do you move the placeholder sim?


Into a Spare unhoused family in the hood. If the family gets too big, delete it and start a new Spare family of one.

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruja wrote:
Into a Spare unhoused family in the hood. If the family gets too big, delete it and start a new Spare family of one.


I don't have spare unhoused sims like that, so I guess I'd put the placeholder sim in with the Townies, Tourists or Stranges when I was done with him?

~Yersinia.

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